Atheistic Community

So, I was watching a video of session on "Communicating Atheism" on YouTube, featuring Aron Ra, Rebecca Watson, Melchiorre, who talked at length about the history of the Civil Rights movement without knowing fuck all about it, (Tip: Malcom X did not start the Black Panthers. Most of your other "facts" were bullshit too), and Richard Dawkins. Rebecca Watson contributed fuck all nothing on the topic but went off on some personal tangent about how Paula Kirby is hurting feminism, or whatever the fuck. She's a New Media Douchebag, I don't have the patience to pay attention to her twaddling any more than I have to.

So that leaves Aron Ra and Dawkins, who both ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THE TOPIC. (I guess in the Skeptical/Atheist community, this is a good panel? In the rest of the world, it means you leave early and annoyed because they just fucked you out of an hour.) They both talked about confronting the religious, how you don't have to give their beliefs special accord and how there's nothing wrong with pointing out the blatant falsehoods and bullshit in religion. If you know anything about either man, you pretty much already know what they said, if you don't, they're both really fascinating and quite humorous.

However, were I to distill their talks down to the bare points, they both said kind of the same thing:

Religion sucks because it's bullshit and a lie and the best way to communicate atheism is to flog them or overwhelm them with facts, and they'll see the light, and how awesome atheists and atheism are.

Well, um, no. They won't, but not because they're stupid or brainwashed. They won't because I honestly think neither man has any clue as to the depth of what they're advocating people to do.

Religion has a lot of problems, huge ones, which is why I'm a member of none of them. (I'm not saying I'm an atheist either. My relationship with the universe is my own fucking business.) But, they also do a lot of things right, especially the community aspect. For example, my boss, who is a deacon, a baptist, and a science geek. (seriously. He says "OF COURSE evolution is real, THEY HAVE THE FOSSILS AND THE PROOF!" I dig that about him.) When he talks about folks in his chuch's congregation who have run into hard times, it's never in the "man, that sucks" way. It's in the "they hit some hard times, so we were busy helping out." way. Someone has a family member die? People show up at their door bearing food, and hugs, and a willing ear. Having a baby? Baskets of useful shit show up. Lost your job? Help is on the way. There's no doubt as to the source, it's a two-word phrase: "My Church".

This is something that, I think, a lot of the skeptic/atheist community overlooks, or dismisses. Not all of them, Abbie Smith of ERV touched on this, lightly, when she talked about how all skeptic/atheist meetups don't have to happen in a bar as part of another post:

Furthermore, having low-stress, kid-friendly activities has helped the OKC Atheists grow exponentially-- picnics, trips to zoos and museums, meet-ups at a pizza place instead of a bar, etc. Weve gotten so big we actually had to make a break-off 'secular parenting' group (though all are still welcome if they are doing something cool and you want to tag along).
You want more members?

Have more low-intimidation, social meet-ups. Not every skeptic group has to meet in a pub. Not every meeting needs to be a lecture. Yes, karaoke nights at a bar are my favorite, but something as small as a few 'kid friendly' events, or day-care for day-long events goes a fuckovalong way to generating a warm, welcoming group.

That's a good start, because shocker, atheists and skeptics have families too, and like to feel that their entire families are welcome, not just the drinking age parts. But I think it needs to go farther. Set aside the (always enjoyable) ridiculing of religion, and ask yourselves: "Do we provide an alternative that is at least as good?" Remember, you're not just asking people to give up a belief in a sky god. You're asking them to walk away from a community that may seem fucked up to y'all, but is important, really important to them. In all too many parts of this country, leaving religion means becoming an outcast from family and friends. It can mean the loss of employment, or the removal of children from a private school. In some parts of the world, it may put you and your family at risk of harm or death. How is the atheist/skeptic community prepared to step in to help with that? Have you thought about a "bad times" fund, so when a local resident, regardless of affiliation, hits some rough patches, you can immediately help. If someone is cast out from their family for leaving religion, how can you help?

(If you want a real instance of just how important religion can be in the community sense, remember that in the early days of the modern civil rights movement in the US, local *churches* and religious groups were on the front fucking lines, getting attacked, shot, blown up and burned up. Dismissing the good that local religious groups have done in a rush to mock their beliefs or point out how wrong they are, is not only ignorant, but insulting to the memories of people who died trying to make the world a better place for all. Don't do that.)

I'm not saying that Atheist/Skeptic groups have some moral imperative to replace all the functions of religion in the US or elsewhere, but they do have a moral and ethical imperative to seriously think about this, and not just dismiss it out of hand. Telling someone that they'll have the satisfaction of being right doesn't erase the sadness that happens on their first Christmas or Chaunakah or Ramadan or what have you as an outcast. The warmth of being on the right side of an argument doesn't produce new friends for kids who don't understand why they not only can't play with their friends anymore, but why their friends and their friends parents are now saying mean things about them, or ignoring their existence. I'm not exaggerating about the loneliness. Even as an adult, I would see that community in action, and wish I was a part of something like that. It's pretty goddamned nice to know that when something happens, people will be there to help, because that's what they're supposed to do. Intellectual superiority doesn't make up for Christmas day alone in North Dakota, two thousand miles from home, and no one to hang out with because it's a family day, and you ain't in it. It sucked and I never had a lot of anything going on regarding Xmas and birthdays growing up. For someone for whom this kind of thing is a big deal? I can't imagine what it's like to suddenly have that gone.

So maybe I am saying that if you're going to encourage someone to make a huge life-changing decision to your way of thinking, yeah, you do bear some responsibility to help them dodge the fallout, and rebuild potentially huge chunks of their lives. It doesn't have to be a fancy job, or a new car.

Maybe it's just showing up at their house, with some food, hugs, and a willing ear. Or an invite to hang out at the local dog park. Maybe it's calling them on a friday night and inviting them and their family over for some board games and company. Maybe it's finding local atheists and skeptics with kids who can set up play dates, and help find good schools that don't care about their (now) lack of religious beliefs. Maybe it's just talking to them about how being an atheist doesn't mean they have to give up all the good parts of the local religious community, because hey, we may not believe in God(s), but we're not uncaring jerks. We still help each other out, it's not all lectures and lawsuits. We have a real, functional, caring community too, and we want you as a part of it.

Smugly pointing out the outcast issue as yet more proof of how much religion sucks does nothing, not a single thing to help the people in the middle of it. You want people to consider your way as better, (and face it, that's why you're "communicating atheism": you think it's better. If you didn't, you would just do your thing and not give a fuck about what someone else does), then you have to make sure it is better, and that takes more than verbose blog posts liberally strewn with sarcasm. It takes actual work and effort and caring and all the rest. It takes understanding that there's more to community than the random donation of money for <cause>. It takes a lot of understanding about the non-religious reasons people have for being part of a church, and how those are actually pretty damned handy.

It takes understanding that there's more to life than being right.

Categories: Other, Politics

Posted by John C. Welch at 09:56 | Permalink

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So, I was watching a video of session on \"Communicating Atheism\" on YouTube, featuring Aron Ra, Rebecca Watson, Melchiorre, who talked at length about the history of the Civil Rights movement without knowing fuck all about it, (Tip: Malcom X did not start the Black Panthers. Most of your other \"facts\" were bullshit too), and Richard Dawkins. Rebecca Watson contributed fuck all nothing on the topic but went off on some personal tangent about how Paula Kirby is hurting feminism, or whatever the fuck. She's a New Media Douchebag, I don't have the patience to pay attention to her twaddling any more than I have to.\n\nSo that leaves Aron Ra and Dawkins, who both ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THE TOPIC. (I guess in the Skeptical/Atheist community, this is a good panel? In the rest of the world, it means you leave early and annoyed because they just fucked you out of an hour.) They both talked about confronting the religious, how you don't have to give their beliefs special accord and how there's nothing wrong with pointing out the blatant falsehoods and bullshit in religion. If you know anything about either man, you pretty much already know what they said, if you don't, they're both really fascinating and quite humorous.\n\nHowever, were I to distill their talks down to the bare points, they both said kind of the same thing:\n\nReligion sucks because it's bullshit and a lie and the best way to communicate atheism is to flog them or overwhelm them with facts, and they'll see the light, and how awesome atheists and atheism are.\n\nWell, um, no. They won't, but not because they're stupid or brainwashed. They won't because I honestly think neither man has any clue as to the depth of what they're advocating people to do.\n\nReligion has a lot of problems, huge ones, which is why I'm a member of none of them. (I'm not saying I'm an atheist either. My relationship with the universe is my own fucking business.) But, they also do a lot of things right, especially the community aspect. For example, my boss, who is a deacon, a baptist, and a science geek. (seriously. He says \"OF COURSE evolution is real, THEY HAVE THE FOSSILS AND THE PROOF!\" I dig that about him.) When he talks about folks in his chuch's congregation who have run into hard times, it's never in the \"man, that sucks\" way. It's in the \"they hit some hard times, so we were busy helping out.\" way. Someone has a family member die? People show up at their door bearing food, and hugs, and a willing ear. Having a baby? Baskets of useful shit show up. Lost your job? Help is on the way. There's no doubt as to the source, it's a two-word phrase: \"My Church\". \n\nThis is something that, I think, a lot of the skeptic/atheist community overlooks, or dismisses. Not all of them, Abbie Smith of ERV touched on this, lightly, when she talked about how all skeptic/atheist meetups don't have to happen in a bar as part of another post:\n\n

Furthermore, having low-stress, kid-friendly activities has helped the OKC Atheists grow exponentially-- picnics, trips to zoos and museums, meet-ups at a pizza place instead of a bar, etc. Weve gotten so big we actually had to make a break-off 'secular parenting' group (though all are still welcome if they are doing something cool and you want to tag along).\n\nYou want more members?\n\nHave more low-intimidation, social meet-ups. Not every skeptic group has to meet in a pub. Not every meeting needs to be a lecture. Yes, karaoke nights at a bar are my favorite, but something as small as a few 'kid friendly' events, or day-care for day-long events goes a fuckovalong way to generating a warm, welcoming group.

\n\nThat's a good start, because shocker, atheists and skeptics have families too, and like to feel that their entire families are welcome, not just the drinking age parts. But I think it needs to go farther. Set aside the (always enjoyable) ridiculing of religion, and ask yourselves: \"Do we provide an alternative that is at least as good?\" Remember, you're not just asking people to give up a belief in a sky god. You're asking them to walk away from a community that may seem fucked up to y'all, but is important, really important to them. In all too many parts of this country, leaving religion means becoming an outcast from family and friends. It can mean the loss of employment, or the removal of children from a private school. In some parts of the world, it may put you and your family at risk of harm or death. How is the atheist/skeptic community prepared to step in to help with that? Have you thought about a \"bad times\" fund, so when a local resident, regardless of affiliation, hits some rough patches, you can immediately help. If someone is cast out from their family for leaving religion, how can you help? \n\n(If you want a real instance of just how important religion can be in the community sense, remember that in the early days of the modern civil rights movement in the US, local *churches* and religious groups were on the front fucking lines, getting attacked, shot, blown up and burned up. Dismissing the good that local religious groups have done in a rush to mock their beliefs or point out how wrong they are, is not only ignorant, but insulting to the memories of people who died trying to make the world a better place for all. Don't do that.)\n\nI'm not saying that Atheist/Skeptic groups have some moral imperative to replace all the functions of religion in the US or elsewhere, but they do have a moral and ethical imperative to seriously think about this, and not just dismiss it out of hand. Telling someone that they'll have the satisfaction of being right doesn't erase the sadness that happens on their first Christmas or Chaunakah or Ramadan or what have you as an outcast. The warmth of being on the right side of an argument doesn't produce new friends for kids who don't understand why they not only can't play with their friends anymore, but why their friends and their friends parents are now saying mean things about them, or ignoring their existence. I'm not exaggerating about the loneliness. Even as an adult, I would see that community in action, and wish I was a part of something like that. It's pretty goddamned nice to know that when something happens, people will be there to help, because that's what they're supposed to do. Intellectual superiority doesn't make up for Christmas day alone in North Dakota, two thousand miles from home, and no one to hang out with because it's a family day, and you ain't in it. It sucked and I never had a lot of anything going on regarding Xmas and birthdays growing up. For someone for whom this kind of thing is a big deal? I can't imagine what it's like to suddenly have that gone. \n\nSo maybe I am saying that if you're going to encourage someone to make a huge life-changing decision to your way of thinking, yeah, you do bear some responsibility to help them dodge the fallout, and rebuild potentially huge chunks of their lives. It doesn't have to be a fancy job, or a new car.\n\nMaybe it's just showing up at their house, with some food, hugs, and a willing ear. Or an invite to hang out at the local dog park. Maybe it's calling them on a friday night and inviting them and their family over for some board games and company. Maybe it's finding local atheists and skeptics with kids who can set up play dates, and help find good schools that don't care about their (now) lack of religious beliefs. Maybe it's just talking to them about how being an atheist doesn't mean they have to give up all the good parts of the local religious community, because hey, we may not believe in God(s), but we're not uncaring jerks. We still help each other out, it's not all lectures and lawsuits. We have a real, functional, caring community too, and we want you as a part of it.\n\nSmugly pointing out the outcast issue as yet more proof of how much religion sucks does nothing, not a single thing to help the people in the middle of it. You want people to consider your way as better, (and face it, that's why you're \"communicating atheism\": you think it's better. If you didn't, you would just do your thing and not give a fuck about what someone else does), then you have to make sure it is better, and that takes more than verbose blog posts liberally strewn with sarcasm. It takes actual work and effort and caring and all the rest. It takes understanding that there's more to community than the random donation of money for <cause>. It takes a lot of understanding about the non-religious reasons people have for being part of a church, and how those are actually pretty damned handy. \n\nIt takes understanding that there's more to life than being right.