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Today, I had the pleasure of, once again, getting your old moldy butts caught in my shoe, and once again, the unalterable joy of dodging still-lit butts flying out of your car while waiting for the bus. Last night, the multiple instances of watching you use the earth as your ashtray showed me the just how kind and considerate you all are.
So when you all start whining and bitching about various ordinances that ban smoking, and tax your little habit into the fucking stratosphere, my reply is simple:
Too
Fucking
Bad
Next time, how about you all police yourselves, and not litter your detritus all over the fucking landscape.
As well, the next time I get some fucktard lecture about how smoking and tobacco are both legal, and how you have some fucking imaginary right to smoke, I'm going to go get a big fucking bag of Levi Garrett, and show you another tobacco habit, in long streams all over your clothes and hair. Because if YOU have the "right" to coat me in smoke that I didn't create, 'cause it's legal, then *I* have the SAME "right" to cover your ass in tobacco spew that you didn't create.
Somehow, I don't think they'll be so fucking blase about that. Hypocritical jackasses. Tax them more and make them wear bubbles on their heads.
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Posted by John C. Welch at 14:55 | Permalink
Comments
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Right the hell on.
Posted by: Ken | August 17, 2007 5:28 PM
This is about enforcing existing littering laws and not about removing my choice, as a business owner, to allow or disallow smoking on my private property. Banning smoking, using the police power of the state to enforce the personal choices of some people onto others, is exactly the wrong thing to do.
Posted by: Aaron Adams | August 17, 2007 6:14 PM
Aaron, if your choice didn't continuously affect everyone in a 10' or greater area around you every time you indulge, everywhere you indulge, that argument would have more merit.
Littering is only part of it, and this exists outside of the secondhand smoke debate, which has far better science behind it than you seem to like.
I don't smoke. I also don't like being told *by smokers* that if I don't' want to go home with a nicotine headache, sore eyes, and smelling like ass that I shouldn't go where smokers are.
Well, that's fucking great advice. Except for one thing...Smokers don't exactly warn you do they? Where's the fucking "SMOKERS ARE HERE, ALL ASTHMATICS AND NON-SMOKERS STAY THE FUCK OUT" sign? because I don't see it. Where's MY warning that someone's going to light up in a place with a one-winged pigeon for ventilation? I'd love a fucking warning. Where's my fucking "SMOKING IS HAPPENING" signs? Where's the fucking sign that the guy in front of me will, in 15 minutes, make me smell like HIS ashtray? 'Cause I'd love that shit.
"If I can't smoke, I can't enjoy my dinner". Yeah, well, be glad I got over the reaction to ashtrays I had when I was younger. That intense, nigh-violent, and barely controllable nausea is a real evening - wrecker. Here, lemme puke in your lap. There, now your lap AND your lungs are warm. Sorry, that's what a full ashtray used to do to me. What, I have the right to puke.
See, the problem is, you're a normally polite person. So are a lot of people. But that drunken fucker at a concert some years back that gave me a second - degree burn with his Marlboro? Not so much. When I pointed out, perhaps a tad rudely that maybe he should watch his fucking firesticks, his reaction?
"Oh wow, dude, I'm sorry I burned you"?
Noooo
"Fuck you, i have a right to smoke"?
Yeah, that would be the phrase. That wasn't the first time, nor the last time that happened.
Some stupid fuck put his butt out in my beer? "Hey, I'm allowed to smoke".
Da Fuck?
Decade after decade, smokers were rude, stupid, hostile fuckers. But then again, maybe it's okay to have, as a reaction to "Hey dude, could you not smoke right here? My friend has asthma" the following precious phrase:
"Sucks to be her, she shouldn't be here if she can't take it, I have a right to smoke."
Like I said. Smokers think they have the right to shat on the landscape, and stink up the landscape for yards around, and be *assholes* about it? (yeah, non-smokers are assholes too, however, non-smoker assholes don't give me shit after burning my arm, so I'm less hostile to them) And now they're all whiny because "You're taking away my rights?"
Well, maybe after how many decades of being complete jackasses about it, as they sowed, so shall they reap. Welcome to hell, light up.
Like I said, the next time someone with burning plant is fucking up my evening, and using "the right to smoke" as a justification for such assholery, they're going to get a stream of Levi Garret juice from stem to stern, and when they whine, I'm going to say "HEY! I HAVE A RIGHT TO CHEW!"
Maybe if a steady stream of jackasses exuding a cloud of stench were not the norm, non-smokers would think about telling the extremists on that side to STFU too. But since smokers can't be bothered to police THEIR assholes, why should we?
Posted by: John C. Welch | August 17, 2007 9:12 PM
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
What part of this disgusting habit do people see and decide "I want me some of that"?
Smokers *in general* have to be the most inconsiderate assholes I have ever had the misfortune to be around.
Finding a polite smoker is about as rare as finding one that doesn't constantly smell like an ashtray.
Posted by: Scott | August 17, 2007 10:32 PM
@Scott:
Finding a polite smoker is about as rare as finding one that doesn't constantly smell like an ashtray.
Yes, that's true, and very sad. However, I'm willing to bet you meet plenty of polite smokers who are *so* polite that you don't even know they smoke.
I'm part of a group of gentlemen that is trying to reclaim smoking from the "fuck you, it's my right group" and restore it as simple a pleasure that some people choose to indulge. We believe it is our right to smoke if we choose, but also our responsibility to respect those who choose not to smoke.
That means asking before lighting up (except in obvious circumstances, like a cigar bar), extinguishing our materials if asked, and making sure that our person and environment are as inoffensive as possible. We don't snuff our butts on the street (partly because we would not light up unless there is a proper ashtray at hand), we don't litter.
We confine our smoking to situations where the after-effects (the smell of smoke that lingers on clothing, breath, and hair) will not be offensive to others. Generally, this means going to a cigar bar, private club, or the like.
However, despite all of this, we get labeled along with the disrespectful. We're certainly willing to tolerate and respect those who do not like smoke, and I've gladly put out a pipe when asked. All I really ask in return is that people tolerate and respect *my* choice to smoke, by being polite to me.
That said, if you begin politely, and a smoker tells you to "fuck off" or similar, I think you're well within your rights to mash his/her face in the mud in response. Tolerance must work both ways.
Posted by: radiantmatrix | August 19, 2007 10:05 AM
I would suggest that the polite smokers start getting a lot more vocal, because y'all are lost in the flurry from the rude ones.
Posted by: John C. Welch | August 19, 2007 11:28 AM
The littering is the least of the "detritus" that these a-holes spew. They are literally killing you and me each time they blow that crap out of their mouths. One thing to kill yourself; totally another to be killing everyone else around you.
"Legal" is not synonymous with "human right". Get over yourself. It is only legal for as long as a law is not enacted and enforced to shut this killing machine industry down once and for all. Smoke weed for all I care, but not this nicotine poison delivery system. Bravo to John and everyone else who has the sense to speak up.
Posted by: os4 | August 20, 2007 12:47 PM
The littering is the least of the "detritus" that these a-holes spew. They are literally killing you and me each time they blow that crap out of their mouths. One thing to kill yourself; totally another to be killing everyone else around you.
I think you'll find that the second-hand smoke mythos is greatly exaggerated, as is the idea that "smoking kills".
There have been several studies that link smoking to an increased risk of various conditions. However, if you actually read the studies (and not the marketing and journalistic summaries), you'll find that the additional risk is quite small. I wouldn't suggest that someone who already had risk factors for, say, heart disease, take up smoking. But, if you're otherwise healthy and smoke in moderation, it's quite unlikely that it will cause any problems.
There has only ever been one study that made any kind of concrete link between "sidestream" (aka "second-hand") smoke and increased risks. That study was invalidated.
There are certainly health concerns -- young kids who regularly inhale smoke (tobacco or otherwise, directly or sidestream) are much more likely to develop asthma and other respiratory conditions, for example. But let's try to have a reasonable discussion of the issue instead of the stupid babble between the "it's my right to smoke wherever and whenever I want, even if I bother everyone else" and the "you're killing MEEEEEE!" crowds, k?
Posted by: radiantmatrix | August 20, 2007 1:39 PM
This is all very simple: Private property owners have the right to determine what activities occur on their private property, as long as said activities do not interfere with others' right to life, liberty, or property. There is nothing that requires you to like that activity, just as you have no obligation to participate in it. If you don't like a smoking restaurant, don't go there. Really, it isn't any more complicated than that.
Smokers leaving their butts on the ground is already covered by littering laws. Let's enforce current laws before we make new ones.
There are signs that warn you about smoking. Previous to the ban here in Ohio, businesses would have a sign on the door that read something like, "This is a smoke free facility". By reading the sign posted by the business owner, you knew whether smoking was permitted, no new laws required!
The myth of second hand smoke is the very questionable science used to justify all this anti-smoking hysteria. Studies have, as another commenter pointed out, found a tiny, and often statistically insignificant, correlation (not causation) between second hand smoke and some respiratory diseases. There is no death certificate which lists second-hand smoke as the cause of death, and there is no disease whose direct cause is known to be second-hand smoke.
A few years back, the state of Ohio got a large lump of tobacco settlement money, a tiny fraction of which they spent on anti-smoking commercials aimed primarily at teenagers. During those commercials, a teenager would say something like:
"In 1993, Bob Jones dies of lung cancer, and yet he never smoked."
The implication being that second-hand smoke was the cause of his lung cancer. Yet, if you watch the commercials carefully, they never directly state that second-hand smoke was the cause of anyone's cancer because they can't, because there's no evidence to support such a claim. If such evidence existed, you can count on the fact that it would have been directly stated in the commercial. Instead, they imply it as strongly as they can without actually stating it.
I think your argument is an emotional one rather than a logical one. The current arc of anti-smoking rhetoric leads me to believe that within my lifetime, tobacco will be a controlled substance. We'll have yet another stupid "war on tobacco", a giant black market will be created, a giant government bureaucracy will be created, millions or billions of Federal dollars will be spent chasing tobacco smugglers, and once-common citizens will be jailed for having a cigarette in their pocket. We've seen all this before (prohibition, illegal narcotics). Give government and these anti-smoking (anti-alcohol, anti-drug) groups an inch and they'll take a mile. This isn't only about a right to smoke, it's about the larger issue of adults' right to decide how to live their own lives without a nanny state looking over their shoulder.
Posted by: Aaron Adams | August 21, 2007 7:43 AM
This is all very simple: Private property owners have the right to determine what activities occur on their private property, as long as said activities do not interfere with others' right to life, liberty, or property. There is nothing that requires you to like that activity, just as you have no obligation to participate in it. If you don't like a smoking restaurant, don't go there. Really, it isn't any more complicated than that.And when enough people realize that there's a currently legal habit that is causing real health problems, generally stinking up the area, and making common activities (going out to eat, dancing) impossible for a rather huge chunk of the population, they have the right to use the legal system to try and fix that. No one enacted anti-smoking ordinances illegally. No one hired enforcers at the polls in the locations where it was voted in. This has all been done legally. Smokers don't like it, they can take the proper measures to try to undo it.
Smokers leaving their butts on the ground is already covered by littering laws. Let's enforce current laws before we make new ones.Wait, you're bitching about the legal system creating a nanny state, yet you want to hire how many more cops to watch your behavior that closely? How much of a tax increase are you willing to support to hire the extra cops to properly enforce all the littering laws? How about smokers start behaving correctly on their own? Why is THAT too much to ask?
There are signs that warn you about smoking. Previous to the ban here in Ohio, businesses would have a sign on the door that read something like, "This is a smoke free facility". By reading the sign posted by the business owner, you knew whether smoking was permitted, no new laws required!No Aaron, all that told me were the businesses who were smoke-free and chose to advertise it. That's NOT the same, and you know it, as a sign that says "Smoking allowed here". Since, by the way you state it, it wasn't a requirement, that's not even reliable.
The myth of second hand smoke is the very questionable science used to justify all this anti-smoking hysteria. Studies have, as another commenter pointed out, found a tiny, and often statistically insignificant, correlation (not causation) between second hand smoke and some respiratory diseases. There is no death certificate which lists second-hand smoke as the cause of death, and there is no disease whose direct cause is known to be second-hand smoke.I could give a fuck about second hand smoke deaths. What I'm tired of is second hand smoke in my clothes, because some fucknut ten yards away had to have a butt. I'm tired of second hand smoke giving me nicotine headaches and hangovers because I had the temerity to want to go someplace a bit more adult than fucking McDonald's. I'm tired of someone's personal habit, that I don't share being forced on my because there's no ventilation system in the world that will keep your smoke in your personal space and your personal space alone.
I think your argument is an emotional one rather than a logical one. The current arc of anti-smoking rhetoric leads me to believe that within my lifetime, tobacco will be a controlled substance. We'll have yet another stupid "war on tobacco", a giant black market will be created, a giant government bureaucracy will be created, millions or billions of Federal dollars will be spent chasing tobacco smugglers, and once-common citizens will be jailed for having a cigarette in their pocket. We've seen all this before (prohibition, illegal narcotics). Give government and these anti-smoking (anti-alcohol, anti-drug) groups an inch and they'll take a mile. This isn't only about a right to smoke, it's about the larger issue of adults' right to decide how to live their own lives without a nanny state looking over their shoulder.And your "I have the *right* to create clouds of smoke that fuck with everyone around me for a ten yard radius" is some how NOT emotional, and based on cold sober rule of law and logic? Dude, better check your cigars, I think they're not just tobacco any more.
Like I said, if you have the "right" to get your smoke all over everyone around you who isn't smoking, then I have the right to stream tobacco juice all over you, even though you aren't chewing. After all, if you don't like it, you can go somewhere that chewing isn't allowed, right? Why should MY "right" to enjoy a legal substance in a legal way be impinged because of *your* personal beliefs?
Again, I still don't see you being real happy about a stream of tobacco spit across your shirt and in your drink. Yet somehow, you cling to the right to do the same to everyone around you with smoke. What, pray tell, is the real difference?
Posted by: John C. Welch | August 23, 2007 7:34 AM
Oh, and on the whole "Banning smoking causes bankruptcy", I call bullshit. You've been to San Francisco which is in a state with massive anti-smoking ordinances, and I know for a fact you've been to bars. Yet, somehow, Dave's, and all the rest seem to be full all the time. I know you've been to New York in the last few years, as have I, and they banned smoking, yet hmm...that city is not shuttered and boarded up either. Boston the same way.
Perhaps it's when you get a law implemented in a half-assed manner that you get the problems. Because those three cities, and I'll wager LA too, don't seem to have a problem. That would suggest that no, anti-smoking laws do not inherently put people out of business. Funny that.
Posted by: John C. Welch | August 23, 2007 7:39 AM
Hello All,
I was reading around some of the posts here and I found interesting things that you guys talk about, I just made a blog about quitting smoking resources and ideas that you might want to check out.
If someone is interested in this topic just go to; http://endthehabitnow.blogspot.com and let me know what you think. Your honest feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: exsmoker | September 30, 2007 11:04 PM
