« Book idea | Main | Dear Insecure Attention Whores... »
So like a lot of people, I'm always keeping an eye out on the job opportunity market, and when one I think would rock far more than my current gig comes up, I'll try for it.
Now, I understand that there is a reason why "applicant" and "supplicant" are similar words. Really. I get it. However, there are times when, well, at some point during the application process, something happens that makes you think "You know what, I don't think I'd want to work there even if you asked."
Take for example, the University of Central Florida. They had, recently, some openings that not only appealed to me, but matched my skill set rather nicely. So, I go through the process of uploading my resume, (Yes, that's actually it, if you're curious. Yes, I really am 40. Yes, my objective sucks, just like every objective sucks, because they're lies, unless they say "To get a job that is better than the one I (don't) have now"). I then go through the tedious process, (I'm guessing UCF uses Peoplesoft, it has a certain flavor to it. The flavor is "make this process as agonizingly painful as possible". Tastes a bit like soap.) of filling out the online application. Now, while I understand that my lack of a bachelor's degree is not a plus, I'm not new. I'm also not willing to lie. It's a thing I have, about being honest with people about who I am.
So I get done, and hit "submit", and not twenty seconds later, I see my status:
What the hell? I don't even get a chance to be rejected by a human? I have over twenty years of electronics and computer experience, some of the best formal and informal management/leadership training available, but because I don't have a bachelor's degree, I don't even make it to the human screener?
I certainly hope UCF is kinder to their students and faculty than they are to potential employees, because to put it bluntly, that sucks. It doesn't make UCF even remotely resemble a place I'd want to work. It makes them look like a cold, autocratic, elitest, narrow-minded collection of jerks, and if that's the impression they want to give, then quite frankly, they're welcome to it.
But that's what looking for a job in the tech industry when you aren't 22-26 and a college grad with a juicy degree from a well-known college. You're not recruited, you're not sought after, you're not even treated with a modicum of dignity or decency. Your experience, your abilities, your skills, your willingness to learn and try new things, none of that matters. You failed to correctly fill a checkbox, bang, you're garbage, and out you go. You may get it in the keister ala UCF, you may get ignored, you may even, if you are "lucky" get a letter telling you of your unsuitability in suit-proof language. But make no mistake, you're still garbage.
Yet people wonder why I'm so cynical.
I can only hope that everyone at UCF who implemented, supports, or agrees with such a system gets to be on the receiving end of such treatment. Were I as mean as many think, I'd add the hope it happens when they're unemployed, so that as they live and die with every resume they send out, they can fully appreciate the kidney punch that such treatment delivers. But having been desperate for a job in hard times before, (October to December 2001 were not kind to me), I'll not wish that on anyone, because that really comes close to shattering you, especially when it happens over and over again.
But I will say that I'm no longer going to recommend my son go to UCF. If they cannot be bothered to treat people nicely when they don't have to, I've little faith in their sincerity in other conditions.
Technorati Tags: Looking for work sucks
Posted by John C. Welch at 22:54 | Permalink
Comments
Dude... you missed the point. They are CRACK DEALERS. You admitted to merely being a social drinker.
As much as they will deny it, the .edu people are in the business of selling degrees. If you haven't literally bought into their world-view, they don't want to employ you.
And since I just re-read Pirsig, I'll throw in another metaphor:
You are not a baptized, confirmed member of the Church of Reason. To them, you are a heretic, non-believer.
--chuck
Posted by: chuck goolsbee | May 29, 2007 11:27 PM
In my experience the HR department of large universities bears little resemblance to the rest of the university...
That's a shitty way to apply for jobs though. My ex-university always had "bachelors degree OR equivalent work experience" as a requirement, and it's just brain-dead to insist on a degree in IT.
Posted by: Nigel Kersten | May 30, 2007 1:34 AM
The funny thing is Chuck, is that MIT IS wasn't that anal about it. They LIKED it, but there were quite a few people not doing grunt work at MIT with no degree at all.
Nigel, welcome to the modern tech field. The job market is a buyer's market, despite PR from the White House, and a lot of companies are using really fucked up job requirements to push for more H-1B's, because "we can't find anyone". Or they've let HR take over every part of the company that involves anything to do with people outside of the specific work tasks. Or whatever.
But it's fucked, and if you want to break into management, it's even worse. I saw an HR blog that within 10 seconds, told me it was written by someone without a clue...one of the posts: "How do you manage your people".
You don't "manage" people, you "manage" things. You lead people. When you "manage" then, you start thinking of them in the same way as a chair or a desk. Therein lies bad things.
Posted by: John C. Welch | May 30, 2007 6:04 AM
I've always thought that my BA in Anthropology from Berkeley was a tad overvalued by prospective (and current) employers. Actual experience trumps schooling, as far as job competency is concerned, in so many ways that it boggles my mind that the having or not having of a degree is used as a brick wall filter.
On another note, got a Cliff Notes® for that resume?
Posted by: pmbuko | May 30, 2007 8:23 AM
I do find that universities do tend to place a high value on degrees. I've seen jobs for secretaries at the local university require a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. It's almost as if they feel that hiring a person without a degree damages their credibility as an institution of higher learning.
Posted by: Chris Johnston | May 30, 2007 9:01 AM
As someone who has just come over to the US on an E-3 visa (a special Australian only version of the H1B), I'm not really in a position to grok the fairness or otherwise of the H1B situation....
I've been surprised in the last few years how much value employers have put on my BA in Philosophy, but have also come to the conclusion that smart employers *DO* value a BA in the humanities.
In Australia at least, a big part of doing a humanities degree is the constant discussion and arguing that goes on in your tutorial sessions. 3 years of this really does go a long way to improving your communication skills... particularly when you consider the fact that to get a decent grade you'll also have written a good number of rather long papers.
Of course people can develop such skills without going to university, but when it comes to IT, poor communication skills are rather prevalent throughout the industry.
I can't even begin to imagine Bizzarro World where JCW is accused of having poor communication skills though.... :)
Posted by: Nigel Kersten | May 30, 2007 9:57 AM
Like many others in the IT field, and readers of this site, I'm an IT professional with no college degree. I am certainly qualified for, and good at, my job, but the circumstances of my employment are luck more so than skill or experience. Having fished around a bit in the job market the past few years, John is dead center: Young, ignorant, and cheap is always the first choice.
I'm only 32 years old, and I dread, maybe even fear, the day I lose my current job. I know finding another one like it will be damn near impossible unless I have some strong contacts I can ask major favors of, and I'm not optimistic that will be the case. Many times, I have thought seriously about other career options besides IT because I'm convinced it'd be easier to find employment in another industry, should the need arise.
The reason I dread or fear being 30- or 40-something and becoming unemployed is because I've seen it first-hand. My father lost his job of 15+ years in his 40s and couldn't get the time of day from any employer in a related field because of his age. I'm convinced this ordeal precipitated his subsequent mental and physical problems, ultimately ending in calamity for our family. I certainly don't want my life to take that same general path.
Recently, Chuck Goolsbee advised me to find a job with a mentor in a data center, and that's good advice. (Personally, I think I'm a little bit beyond the point of mentoring and what I need is something more like a smart colleague.) Of course, finding mentors is currently a function of luck, as I haven't seen any job postings advertising such a benefit. But along those lines, there's an idea I haven't fully formed, but I think I, and maybe many IT workers, would've benefitted much more from a sort of apprenticeship rather than college education. What am I thinking of here? A guild? Some other kind of professional organization? The "IT brotherhood"? Yeah, I dunno either. I just think direct experience, under a mentor, in a data center from the ages of, say, 19-25, would have been exponentially more beneficial to me, and a whole hell of a lot more interesting.
Posted by: Aaron | May 30, 2007 11:08 AM
On another note, got a Cliff Notes® for that resume?
You'd be amazed at the arguments I've gotten into with Melissa about that. It's a catch - 22. If I cut out experience, then it's harder to get past the "no degree" issue. If i don't, then the Resume Monkey's can't handle it.
It's one reason why I spent a lot of time putting the bookmarks and links in it, so you can get to the various sections quickly. Which is why it's PDF.
But yeah, that's not an easy question. I don't agree with the MUST BE ONE PAGE thing, because all that does is give you a pinhole view. I also detest the "references available upon request" thing, it's silly. So, right now, it is what it is. I'm very cautious about changes to it, because it's rather important.
Posted by: John C. Welch | May 30, 2007 1:25 PM
I was laid off in December after working 4+ years, and it was striking how the Internet has changed job hunting. Those electronic submissions - besides being different and massively time-consuming for each different company - really creating a negative hiring situation for both the employer and the potential employee. I'm surprised there hasn't been a Dateline NBC on it.
You can't improve your presentation, and there's no chance of even being looked at for even 1 second if the magic search term they're looking for isn't in your resume. Take your exact instance - they totally missed out on the opportunity to at least consider your resume and experience. Sucks.
Posted by: lizriz | May 30, 2007 6:14 PM
A gratuitous "I feel your pain" comment: I'm trying to transition into tech after twenty + years in construction, mostly self-employed. A tech-support job came up at the local school district. The pay wasn't that great, and they wanted a boatload of experience: Windows, Mac, Linux, networking, office suites, etc. I don't meet all their requirements, but they aren't gonna get anyone who does for what they're paying, and it would be something to put on a resume besides certifications, so I apply. And the application process is just painful; there are ten or so separate pages to enter data in, and it is completely teacher-centric, so much of it has no relationship whatsoever to the position I'm applying for. But if you don't put something in, they throw up an error: "You haven't filled out blah completely, your application may not be considered." And, it's done over a plain http connection, no encryption. I go ahead and finish it anyway, and then send an email to the contact address suggesting that they really ought to provide a secure connection for people entering that kind of data, and I get an email back saying, "I'll mention that to my boss." And, that's it. I never hear another word from them, and months later, that website is still plain old http.
Posted by: rob | May 30, 2007 11:18 PM
Before you all go bashing the university specifically, it is important to know that many institutions have requirements dictated to them by the state. Some requirements have to do with being accredited as well. I teach at a college, have the required degree to teach there, have published a half dozen books, and have a decade of real world experience, yet I am unable to teach courses in another department at which I am qualified… the reason: I don't have the "right kind" of degree. It was explained to me that the strict degree requirements in this situation were based on requirements for being accredited.
This is a long-winded way of saying "BOO-FREAKIN-HOO". Some of us who did get the degree still get the shaft. :-P
Posted by: EmptySet | June 3, 2007 2:02 AM
Argh. Sorry for double post. The comments went all goofy on me.
Posted by: EmptySet | June 3, 2007 2:05 AM
Empty, unless you can show me where the state is regulating non-teaching positions in state universities, you're comparing Apples and Oranges. Teaching positions have always had degree requirements, or at least certification requirements.
UCF has positions in IT sans degree requirements, so the chances that the state of FL is saying "everyone who works there shall have a Bachelor's degree approaches nil". (Those positions are the McJobs of the Tech industry, and sorry, I'm really not up for taking a 70% pay cut for the "glory" of working at UCF.)
I've not said that everything is exactly the same. There are cases where requiring a degree makes sense, i.e. to be licensed as a MD, as this ensures at least a basic uniformity in skill set. When you're talking about someone who literally deals in life and death, that's a good thing.
The reason I'm limiting my comments here to the tech sector is because a) I'm familiar with it, b) the degree as an absolute requirement is relatively new, and c) it is the American tech sector that is the loudest voice in the "we need more H-1B hires or we'll collapse" crowd.
It is the tech sector that I'm talking about, nothing else.
Posted by: John C. Welch | June 3, 2007 8:28 PM
Fair enough. In the original post it wasn't clear to me that this was for a non-teaching position. I also generally agree with you about the stringent nature of the application processes at colleges and universities. I likewise was turned down for a tech position at a college for which I was qualified, because I didn't hold the paper. It was obvious that the nimrods that interviewed me had no idea what the job was about (ie non-techies), but because I didn't have the magix combo, poof, I'm outta there.
Posted by: EmptySet | June 6, 2007 12:26 AM
